Summits and Giveaways with Steve Eriksen
This is a presentation for Flip Your Marketing Flops Virtual Micro-Summit Event #3
where the topic was Hidden Secrets of Lead Generation. The event host is also the presenter, Joe Sayles, Jr. - Lead Generation Strategist.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 0:24
I'm your host Joe Sayles, Jr. Welcome to Flip Your Marketing Flops - Hidden Secrets of Lead Generation.
Welcome to the Flip Your Marketing Flops Virtual Summit Series, monthly interviews with marketing professionals discussing mistakes and hidden secrets and how to prevent those mistakes. This is summit number three, and today's theme is Hidden Secrets of Lead Generation. Today's topic is Summits and Giveaways with our speaker, Steve Ericksen of the Midlife Entrepreneur. Welcome to the show Steve.
Steve Eriksen 1:07
Thank you very much for having me here, Joe. I'm so excited to share some of the things I know with you and your audience.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 1:14
Steve, you know I'm so happy that we've had this chance. We met a couple of months ago and we're in the same membership group and whatnot so I've been looking forward to this opportunity to-to-to meet with you like this. Where are you hanging out today, Steve?
Unknown Speaker 1:27
I am in Norway, coming all the way from Europe.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 1:30
Yeah, so then it's nighttime there?
Unknown Speaker 1:34
At the moment, it's actually just quarter past six. It's still early, but if I have turned my working day upside down because I've worked so much with Americans in California and the Pacific Time Zone. So I typically stay up to like 4 or 5am my time, and and then I have my evening time... it is actually in the morning so...
Joe Sayles, Jr. 1:51
Uh got it one of my virtual assistants is the same way. He says in his country, he's he's one of the oddballs that's up all night and does things all night so i get it. Your background is in technology and your business is focused on the Midlife Solopreneur, so I backed up I think I said the name of your business wrong. If I did I'm sorry about that... but, how long have you been doing that Midlife Solopreneur as a business?
Unknown Speaker 2:16
I started sixth of July last year, so I'm very new into having my own business in this particular segment, doing the coaching for other midlife solopreneurs. And and for me, it's been a fantastic period of time in since the sixth of July, so right from the the information with you.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 2:37
That's awesome, and I know that you're you've been involved in lead generation related activities for a lot longer. How did you get started and all that? How did it lead to to your current business?
Unknown Speaker 2:47
So I have an MBA from a two-year MBA in the UK and I had took that degree between '92 and '94. And I I really came out and said... actually when I had my first business, I grew to have seven staff, and I had about 3,000 customers and so with the business, I got five figures for the business.
Steve Eriksen 3:11
Other people sold their own business and the assembly business and they were getting like six and seven figures like up to a million and more for their business. And I call it my failure to succeed. I didn't fail in the business, but to failed to capitalize on it. I failed to like set myself up for life. And I went and said okay I have an MBA... what what did I do wrong? And that's when I realized that the MBA MBA taught me to be a good corporate employee. It didn't teach me to be a good entrepreneur or solopreneur.
And I started in 2000 really, in really studying, What is effective marketing? What is effective lead generation? How do you attract clients? And it's been a journey for me all the time since. So I've been in working with clients. I've been working as an employee. I've been working on my own, and really within that field. And also a lot with the merging of technology and marketing at the same time. That's really where I build up my expertise over the last 20 years.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 4:12
And this has been a unique time for all of us I think to go through these experiences. I am like you, I you know, we were taught to be one thing... we were taught to do it one way... and it turns out now that, you know, we're midlife. If we were doing things that we never planned on doing. We're doing things we never expected and it's not going like we were told it would be going so, I totally understand all the changes.
So let's get into today's topic then. You're here to talk about summits and giveaways, and... and so what kind of things make summits and giveaways a lead generation secret?
Unknown Speaker 4:46
Well, here's the really... the number one key about the summit or giveaway... is that it's the only way I know that you can build your list and get paid whilst you're doing it.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 4:57
Right!
Steve Eriksen 4:58
Right now, let me say again, you get paid while you're building your list! Any other way I know of building my list, I have to pay money. You know, doing advertising and things. It's... it's fantastic for that. When you have a summit, or you have a giveaway, what happens is that the speakers or the contributors to the giveaway are actually doing the promotion. And when they're doing the promotion, they... people come into your page and sign up to your list, so they get access to that, summit, or those gifts. And that's how you build your your list, really. And and they doing all of the work, and it's not costing you a penny!
Joe Sayles, Jr. 5:34
Right! Well give me an idea, you know, let's... let's look at each one of these separately, because I know before I got into... I was... I come from a paid (advertising) and SEO background and lead generation. Those were my primary methods (of lead generation)... and you know, over the last couple of years, I've learned about the... you know, obviously doing webinars, and doing summits, and giveaways, are some of the newer end of things that I've learned about. So let's kind of focus and talk a little bit about each one. We can talk about, maybe the technology and technologies involved and suggestions and things of that nature, if you don't mind. So yeah, so why don't you choose the one that... well, first of all, is that do you have a preference of one over the other? I know you work with both, but do you have a preference, or would you recommend one over the other?
Steve Eriksen 6:25
I would recommend seriously that you do both. It's as simple as that! They are different they act differently they attract different types of people I guess, so it's well worth bearing that in mind.
The great thing about a summit is that it enhances your authority. It enhances your influence. It enhances that all important know, like, and trust. And the reason is doing that, is that you are the figurehead of a summit. You are the person who's out promoting... like you're doing that job. You are doing the interviews, so you're the expert. You're the one who's there in every single recording for this particular summit. And this is a summit. It's a micro-summit that we're doing right now, where the videos are being recorded, and people register for them to get access, and are able to go and watch them. And so, you are automatically building up your authority by being the host.
Now, when I did... I've done two summits so far, and on my second summit for instance, they were both done live by the way, so ...excuse me... on my second summit I had 37 speakers over five days... eight hours a day. You know it was all done live. People came into the room and they were listening to the speakers. Some of the people stayed on for the whole event to actually listen to that. Some of the people who the audience, stayed in there they have over 40 hours listening to every single speaker (they) were there every single session... which is truly amazing!
And here's the thing, I had the opportunity to be the host... the person... I know I didn't do it interview style, I could not facing doing like 37 interviews really. Not one back to back, but what I did was that I came on and said, Okay, thank you to the previous speaker and here's a little bit about what we're doing, and here's the next speaker who is going to be talking about the particular topic and the left hand to it. And just by doing that, the people who stayed there, the people who heard me in between... and also I was able to do my own presentation during the summit. They... they got to know me, they got to like me, they got to trust me in what I'm doing. And the authority of your speakers will also carry over to the host.
So that is one of the key things. And in terms of how successful it was, well the speaker's brought in 836 new prospects into my mailing list.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 8:41
Wow!
Steve Eriksen 8:42
You know, and I didn't pay for any of that. The speakers did a promotion. The speakers brought them in. And that to me is huge! That in and it took me around three weeks to put on that summit, from the now it's where we're starting to go out and bring speakers on board, onboarding them, setting it all up, then going out and promoting and getting participants into the summit. And then we went live on a Monday morning, and for eight hours a day, for five days and when it was over I had 836 new names on the list.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 9:13
Isn't that incredible? Now, I'm breaking it down... that was just...I it's funny because I consider doing it live, and I'm still thinking about doing it live in the future. I know I'm gonna do webinars live, and whatnot, but the reason I didn't start live is simply because... I started off in radio and tv years ago, and as soon as a red light came on, I used to freeze mentally. And so I wanted to get into the habit of doing this regularly. But also because as a solopreneur I'd like to try to read as much and see as much as I can, and I just thought it'll be easy for me to get into this, and get... get some practice, and then get to the point... then to make short interviews... and then get to the point where I can get... you know, make... make events so everybody can get involved and everything but I wanted to have experience. And my own personal things are getting in the way. So I can't imagine starting off with a giant webinar or a giant summit like you did. That's just got to be incredible and incredible feeling to be to do that successfully and good for you!
Steve Eriksen 10:11
Thank you very much mean, you. You're talking about freezing when red light came on. And actually one of my primary motivators for doing a summit was the fact that I used to freeze when the red light came on. I would like, literally go like, okay said my first sentence. Okay, what? What was my next sentence? Oh yeah. And so for me, it was like a real psychological, excuse me, real psychological barrier needed to get across. I'm a total introvert, you know, I hate standing up, and I hate talking to, to a large group of people. But there I was in a position where the pain of not talking was much higher than the pain of talking, you know, for me to go out and saying, Well, I was going to put this on and I buckled down because I feared it too much. And I'm not doing it anymore, cancel at all. That pain was massively drastically more than the pain of actually just going there. And being still like, rabbit caught in headlights, really. Like saying, Okay, thank you very much. And now we've got the next speaker, you know, that was my first summit, pretty much. But you know, second summit, that I was much more able to handle that transition in a better way. And so it's, um, it's gonna be a lot better for you.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 11:17
And especially when you're going to be a speaker on it. And you're also the one behind the scenes, and you're handling the technology and everything else. There's so many things to think about. And so many, so many moving parts, which drives me to the discussion of the technology.
For me, personally, I got it, I had looked at a technology that was designed for summits, then I got away from it, left it alone for a while, then I got in a conversation with a gentleman. And that gentleman was able, he mentioned the technology again. So I thought I'm gonna be a better another look, because I had never had a chance to look at it fully like I had intended. That tech, that particular piece of technology had a training package with it. And I went through that training. And one of the things they promoted that training was also the ability to do it as a recorded... as a recorded session. So that really, that combination got me rolling. But technology, tell me a little bit about how you help people with technology. Do you have solutions that you recommend and things of that nature? As for for summit's?
Steve Eriksen 12:16
Yeah, absolutely. So I am really pivoting a little bit what I'm doing right now, because my passion is to help people who are in the midlife who are solopreneurs, who want to have a successful coaching business. And a big part of that is the client attraction. And I sort of have discovered I realized, but you know, there's a difference between realizing in a theoretical way, and then seeing the leads starting to come into your list people starting to buy the products that you have it services that you have, because you're doing a summit. And it's like, that realization was amazing. But here's the thing. I am a technology person and a marketing person. So what I did when I did my first summit was to automate a lot of the things that I did. So when I did my second summit, even though it was live, even though I had seven sorry, 37 speakers in apart from the time that it took to, to actually run the summit. Apart from that time, I spent something like 10 hours on the administration of all of that.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 12:20
Right!
Steve Eriksen 12:21
Now, 10 hours when you have 37 speakers, that's next to nothing. Now, people who I speak to putting on summits with far less speakers are spending 50 to 100 to 150 hours and more trying to do all of the administration. And I realized that I have a system that I'm using for myself that actually would be beneficial for anybody who's running a summit. And it's interesting thing, the company I used to work with, when I started up on the sixth of July, I was working with a life coach certification company. And this company was pivoted as well from being in person events they used to do in person events with around 900 to 1100 people three times a year. In June, they did 1800 people into virtual event, and in October 2200 into virtual event. So I have a lot of experience in the background with how do you actually manage a lot of people who registering for an event, making sure they got access, giving them a dashboard where they can do different things. And that's what I automated all of the speaker communication, all of the tracking of the speakers actually promote who was on the leaderboard, all of this I actually automated. So what I'm doing now is I am packaging all of that up and making a system where anybody can run their own summit, whether it's live pre-recorded hybrid model, or giveaway or however you want to do it, you can actually run your summit through my software, and it just eliminates 90% of the admin work.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 14:42
Keep me in the loop on that because I know that, I know one of the benefits of running a live summit is the fact that you don't have nearly as much administrative time. You know, obviously, you know I have a lot of administrative time because I'm doing a pre-recorded and I don't have a lot of virtual assistants or anybody anything else. I happen to have a platform that I was able to do everything from you know with a little thought, but this is... this was to get me started, to get me rolling and so I actually am definitely going to have a conversation with you at some time about what you were putting together and I'd love to be a beta tester or anything else you want. So... but, but you know 10 hours I don't think people really understand that 10 hours is one of my days putting on mine and I spend at least a minimum of two to three weeks really rolling out mine... well actually two weeks of really heavy wrote heavily rolling out my process. Again, I don't have copywriters. I don't have... you know... I don't have very many... I don't have a social media, well I do have a little bit of social media help sometimes, but I don't have you know anybody else really doing anything. I'm doing the interviewing, I'm doing the planning, I'm doing... doing all of it so to hear 10 hours for 36 people that are 36 speakers that's just incredible, Steve!
Steve Eriksen 14:42
Yeah, yeah it really makes a difference when you have a software system that works with you... and one of the challenges with was that there are solutions out there that you could be using and I tried to use some of those solutions, but they really didn't do what I needed it to do. You know when you were... one of the things I want to do was to say to speakers. okay so when you go out and you get somebody into my list as a reward when I make a sale I've got the sequence I'm going to monetize this I'm going to sell a course afterwards. I want to give you a commission. And I couldn't get that information out of the system of which person, which attendee, was brought in by what speaker, so I could actually pay them a commission, it was impossible!
Joe Sayles, Jr. 16:37
You know that has been a lot of work. I'm fortunate that my software that what I'm using, is able to do some of that, but the solution that I started all of this with like I was surprised when I got to the point that I realized I needed to have an affiliate software, I needed to have this, I needed to have that, on top of what I was working with, and so when I realized I could do this all within mine I said I'm gonna give it a try just see how it works out because I knew it was gonna be my first one it was gonna be smaller scale, Well, but the point is that you're right, the software's don't have all the capabilities they need out there, and so again, once you've been doing it and once you realize that you packaged it together, you just you're just gonna have something that's really useful and if we do our job making people aware of the value of summit software or summits as a lead generator, then your software is going to just take off and fly Steve!
Steve Eriksen 17:27
Thank you and I believe it is. One of the things that I teach people when I do marketing, is that when you have an offer and you've got your elevator pitch for it you know you've got your 10 to 30 seconds like, this is what they do, this is what the service is, then you go and tell them... and they go wow! That sounds really fantastic! I'll bet you're going to get a lot of clients from that. You go back and rethink it... because what you want to do is for them to say wow, I want that! You know, how can I sign up? Here's the amazing thing about my solution for for running summits, every time anybody who many people are not even interested in, or have not been interested in running summits so far, but anybody who is running, when I tell them what I'm doing, they go and like... How can I do it? How can I get access now?
Joe Sayles, Jr. 18:12
How do I sign up...I was trying to not go into that too far, but that's exactly what I'm feeling right now, so I totally... yeah you're right about that!
Steve Eriksen 18:21
Yeah, one of the things you don't realize when you're starting to do a summit, as you found out, you know there's so many moving parts. You've got to build your website. You've got the agenda page. Then you get all of the bio and everything from the speakers, and then the speakers... after you've created a page, the speaker would go, oh can you change something or different URL or something you have to go and make the edits. You have to set up all of that affiliate tracking. You know, you have to be quite technical to actually make it all work as well. That is one of the challenges. And what I'm doing is basically presenting more or less like a summit... summit admin system in a box. So everything is included and it's automated so all you need to do is to get speakers on board they fill out their own information, it creates the agenda page for you, it creates the opt in page for you, you know. And when people are going, okay the summit is live whether it is pre-recorded, or live, whatever... it will automatically send out the emails that says hey the summit is live come and listen in and access the speakers and things.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 19:21
Right.
Steve Eriksen 19:22
So yeah, and yeah that's very powerful I think.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 19:26
I'm going to mention this on the on the air here. I'm part of a network of promoters and summit builders...the guys who actually put on the summits. I would definitely like to talk with you off the air about that. And then and we have a group and what we do is we go in there, and we beta test, and we help with different softwares we analyze, and kind of make suggestions and things of that nature so I think that will be if you want more ears and eyes it'd be able to help you get it right the first time out, you know that's something that that I can offer you as well.
Steve Eriksen 19:57
No that'd be totally awesome I'd love to be part of that.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 19:59
Absolutely, Steve, now, I don't want to lose sight of the fact that you are also doing giveaways and you work with giveaway technology. Why don't you spend a little bit of time telling us about the benefits, the technologies behind doing a giveaway?
Steve Eriksen 20:17
Yeah. So, giveaway works a little bit differently from a summit. With a giveaway, you have much less opportunity to increase your authority and influence and know, like, and trust, because the way a giveaway works is that you get a group of contributors who each are contributing a gift of some kind, and ideally, a gift of value, like maybe access to a course or, or something. And the you're creating a page where people can go to and then see a list of all of the contributors, click on a button to go to a contributor, and opt in if you're interested based on the description. Now, again, the contributors promote, and you take everybody to a landing page where they have to opt in before they get to see the lists. You're building your list. But on that contribution page, you're not really featured more than being really just another person who has a gift on that page. You can probably say, hey, it's presented by Joe. But it's not a lot of opportunity. But here's the great thing about a giveaway. Contributors will pay to be able to appear on your list. Right. So if you get say, together, 30 contributors, alright, 20 to 30 contributors, you charge them anything from 100 to $300, to be a contributor. And everybody then goes out and promotes. You can actually make something like $3,000. You know, you can make more than $3,000. And so you get paid to build your list. Because all you do is the same thing as summit, you build a page with all of these contributors, you have links to their websites, where people will opt in on their website, but you get paid before it even starts because they contributor, they can't be on the list before they pay you. And then all you need to do is make sure that they are promoting and people are coming to the page and people are opting in to these gifts. And you building your list. So it's a fantastic way. Now it's something you wouldn't normally charge a speaker.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 22:15
Right. Right.
Steve Eriksen 22:16
But for giveaways you do, and that's the difference.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 22:20
Now, let me ask you this, then. Technologies, are there any special technologies, you know, any software that you would recommend for using a giveaway or getting you do a giveaway comfortably with any kind of Website Builder?
Steve Eriksen 22:33
Well, here's the thing, the software I'm developing will also do a giveaway for you. Right? It will build out all of the pages I actually, I had somebody I managed to give away for somebody back in December. And the I spent around two or three hours on the administration of the summit. Sorry, they give away itself. And they had over 60 contributors. And I was responsible for getting all of the contributors information onto the page and publishing the page. And all of the updates. And the the guy who gave me the tasks, it says that I saved him over 200 hours.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 23:13
Wow, I believe it. I totally see that. I totally can see that.
Steve Eriksen 23:17
So So yeah, I would say if you want to run a giveaway, get in touch because the software will simplify your life so much.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 23:25
Wow. Wow. Well, I know we're going to be coming up close to this, which I try to keep these in 30 minutes. So is there any big failures that you would like to share that you've had? In working in in either in either with, with giveaways or with your summit's?
Steve Eriksen 23:50
Oh, I probably haven't done enough of them yet to have any kind of big failures. But I think the first one I did not. Okay, so depending on whether you calling it the failure, I didn't plan the monetization well enough.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 24:08
I understand.
Steve Eriksen 24:09
Right. So what happened was, I put people into a course I got four people into my course the course was 497. So I made $2,000. And then I had upsells from that as well from the course itself. But I could have done a better job of my presentation. I could have done a better job of... and this was probably me being like a rabbit caught in headlights... of actually taking enough space between each speaker, to make sure that they understood who I was that I was to host what they stood for, to increase that know like and trust and authority during the summit. Instead, it was only when I was actually doing my own talk and doing my own talk and got just under 10% conversion which isn't bad at all.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 24:52
Right.
Steve Eriksen 24:54
But I could have had more people coming onto my course which then would have translated into more money. So I think making sure You understand your monetization strategy, you understand why you're doing a summit, the timing of the summit, and how it fits into your marketing activity, because you want to catch them when they are warm leads people who are there in front of you and seeing you. So yeah, definitely, that's definitely one.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 25:16
Well, you know, I think you've already touched on one of your biggest wins, that's at 836 leads out of 36. speakers, that's pretty incredible. You were talking about timing, do you have a sequence that you would recommend for timing of putting both a summit on and a giveaway on?
Steve Eriksen 25:36
Yes, so you can just you can, it doesn't really matter whether which one comes first, what is more, even if they're running at the same time. But typically, what you want to do is leave a gap of around two weeks from the time of the event, to you're having something like a big three day event, ideally. Now, this is the ideal, it takes you a little bit of time, okay. So it takes a little bit of time. Now, bearing in mind that I come from a point of it, it's like an overnight success that took 20 years to happen.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 26:11
Right?
Steve Eriksen 26:12
I did a summit, I did a three... I did two summits sorry. And I've done a three-day event. And normally will take people a long time before they're ready to do a three-day event. But I've been in the world for quite a while where three-day events are happening. And I had a lot of thought about how to do my three-day event. The ideal sequence is, you do your summit, you do at least one presentation during the summit. The people who didn't see your presentation at the summit, you put them into webinars, you invite them into a webinar, and you do that for about a period of two weeks, then you having a three-day event. And by the way, you need to sell VIP recordings. If you're doing it live, you sell VIP recordings of the summit room, everybody who buys the VIP recordings, get a ticket to your event. And then when you have their three-day event, you need to have something to promote to them, which is certainly in the several $1,000.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 27:05
Yes, yes.
Steve Eriksen 27:06
Because he's spending three days on actually building up that know, like, and trust and demonstrating that you really know what you're doing. And then when you're making that offer, whether that's $2,000, $5,000 or $10,000. You know, that's when you're going to start getting sales.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 27:18
Right, right. I've been taking notes along the side here because I look at things and I'm glad I'm taking notes because there's once or one or two things I was like, Oh, that's slightly different than what I thought about are slightly different than the way I was planning to do it or things. So I'm glad I I'm glad to have had this conversation with you. today. We've been talking about the lead... the hidden secrets and the the value of summits and giveaways in lead generation with with our speaker Steve Eriksen. Today Steve, got a last question for you. What's a question that... or what's a topic or something that I didn't ask you about today, that you think I probably should have? I get this question from Tom Poland, a guy that I like to follow. And I think it's a great one. What's something I didn't ask you about today that that you think maybe I should have mentioned or the thought about asking you?
Steve Eriksen 28:12
I think what we didn't talk about is, if you completely newbie, you're starting from nothing. You have no list, you have no contacts, can you still run a summit? Alright? And my answer to that is definitely yes. I had been in business for six weeks when I ran my first summit. You know, I quit my old job, I started my business six to July 31 of August, I was running a summit and the summit took me two weeks to put together. I had like 100 people on my list by then. Because I've been participating in a giveaway. And everything I did putting together the speakers, I had to help putting together speakers. You can't always do everything on your own. So I went to somebody who had a list of speakers and saying, "Hey, can you help me find speakers?" And they said, "Yeah, sure." And a number of speakers came from there. But the point is, I had no credibility, I had no track record, I had no big list of my own. And I was able to, in the space of two weeks to put together a summit. What you have to do is to have to be very, very clear on what is your positioning, what is the topic? What's the theme? What's the benefit for the participants. And by the way, if anybody is interested in learning more about how to create a successful summit, then go to SummitRaptor.com. And we are putting together a training then first in the first one is going to be first and second of May. And then we're going to have them regularly afterwards, where it's a two day workshop style where we are going through everything you need to know and how to create your own summit. And you also get access to the software that will actually help you execute it as well. So
Joe Sayles, Jr. 29:47
I was... it's funny because the next thing I was going to ask you about is what do you have coming up next and what did you want to tell us about for the audience? So what was it again?
Steve Eriksen 29:55
Alright, so summitraptor.com. It's a two-day virtual weekend workshop. Where we go through everything you need to do to, to go through to create a successful summit? We're talking about the positioning, how do you communicate with the speakers? How do you get the audience interested? How do you monetize it? We give you swipe copy there. So that's email, pre written email copy that you can send out to attendees and send out to speakers. You're going to go through and actually adapt this to your own business, and to your own ideas over a two-day period. So your coming out out of the gate and ready to run your own summit. That's the goal of the weekend. And we're going to run those on a regular basis.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 30:35
Well, Steve, you led me to the last couple of questions I was going to ask you. So you just answered them all in that in that last little bit of information there. So I really appreciate that. And, and I will close this out. So today This is today's been a fascinating conversation with lead generation, promoter and technology specialist Steve Eriksen, who has been discussing summits and giveaways and I thank you for being here today. Steve.
Steve Eriksen 31:02
You're welcome. My pleasure. And thank you for having me.
Joe Sayles, Jr. 31:05
I'm your host, Joe Sayles, Jr. and this has been Hidden Secrets of Lead Generation. On the Flip Your Marketing Flops, Virtual Summit Series. Where you can listen in on conversations with lead generation experts. We're helping service businesses produce better marketing results. For more information, visit www.FlipYourMarketingFlops.com.